According to definition, terrorists are...

[Galmin]

Hi Chris!



A famous General once said that the first lesson in strategy is to understand the enemy. As long as we do not we have precious little chance for improvement.









Columnist Ben-Dror Yemini said the Palestinians' determination belies the long-held Israeli notion that Arabs "understand

only force."



"I wish they did understand force," he wrote in the Maariv daily. "Here they are, beaten and humiliated and wounded, and it only drives them on. The list of volunteers for the martyrs' brigades only gets longer, even though each such lunatic knows he will cause his family harm and their house will be destroyed. They don't care. They don't understand force."

[questionnaire]

.... and you can never secure a long-term victory over people who are not afraid of death and who hate you for what you have done. Look at Indonesia, Bosnia and Northern Ireland. Centuries of strife.



I notice that Larree's terrorists are all Muslims. The United Nations granting of land rights to the new state of Israel in the thoughtless and incautious way that it did just after WWII (after British vaccillation over the issue) was a tragic historical mistake, just as the English Protestant leader Cromwell's colonisation of Catholic Northern Ireland was in the 17th century. More attacks on Muslim territories could cause Huntingdon's 'clash of civilizations' and a potential global war.



A global war would, of course be very good for capitalist expansion because it fits the historical pattern of boom-recession-war-reconstruction-boom. WWII ended the 1930s depression. So don't expect support for a rational solution from the global corporations who currently have the US government in their pockets.



The only slim chance for peace, as suggested by the Israeli labour party and a host of Jewish intellectuals, is for Israel to get out of the illegal settlements and modify the Law of Return. Ensuring the institution of a strong Palestinian state would give it the means and legitimacy to clamp down on terrorism, work in partnership with the Israeli state and eventually allow Jewish immigration to Palestine as well as Israel. However, things might have gone beyond the point of repair already, and if the extreme Zionists get their way and try to fulfill their ambitions of further colonisation of the Levant then we are in for massive military confrontation.

[MIKE BURN]

Quote:

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but i can tell you for sure that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are terror organizations and history will never look back on them as anything but.....

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Israel is a terror organisation.



EXAMPLE #1:

Quote:

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The King David Hotel explosion of July 22, 1946 (Palestine), which resulted in the deaths of 92 Britons, Arabs and Jews, and in the wounding of 58, was not just an act of “Jewish extremists,” but a premeditated massacre conducted by the Irgun in agreement with the highest Jewish political authorities in Palestine-- the Jewish Agency and its head David-Ben-Gurion.



According to Yitshaq Ben-Ami, a Palestinian Jew who spent 30 years in exile after the establishment of Israel investigating the crimes of the “ruthless clique heading the internal Zionist movement,” The Irgun had conceived a plan for the King David attack early in 1946, but the green light was given only on July first.



According to Dr. Sneh, the operation was personally approved by Ben-Gurion, from his self-exile in Europe. Sadeh, the operations officer of the Haganah, and Giddy Paglin, the head of the Irgun operation under Menachem Begin agreed that thirty-five minutes advance notice would give the British time enough to evacuate the wing, without enabling them to disarm the explosion. The Jewish Agency’s motive was to destroy all evidence the British had gathered proving that the terrorist crime waves in Palestine were not merely the actions of “fringe” groups such as the Irgun and Stern Gang, but were committed in collusion with the Haganah and Palmach groups and under the direction of the highest political body of the Zionist establishment itself, namely the Jewish Agency.



That so many innocent civilian lives were lost in the King David massacre is a normal part of the pattern of the history of Zionist outrages: A criminal act is committed, allegedly by an isolated group, but actually under the direct authorization of the highest Zionist authorities, whether of the Jewish Agency during the Palestine Mandate or of the Government of Israel thereafter.

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American Hypocrites, drop a few bombs on Tel Aviv NOW!

DEATH to all Terrorist SCUM.

[memphis mike]

Hamas has stated it's only goal is to destroy and remove all jews from Israel....

[Galmin]

Hamas' goal: "an end to the occupation"

=an end to the Jewish occupation of historical Palestine.



Hamas wants Israeli withdrawal from all of the West Bank and Gaza, the dismantling of all Israeli settlements and full right of return for the four million Palestinians who live in other states.





There, it's pretty similar to the goals of those other groups I mentioned earlier.



Ergo: Hamas is in no way unique and falls into the pattern of most other terrorist groups.

[memphis mike]

so now, they are just a bunch of do-gooders, is that what you are saying?

[Galmin]

No! That is NOT what I am saying. Do you consider terrorists in general do-gooders???



Where do you get all this from? Where did I even hint to something like that?

[memphis mike]

you are confused as to the wants of Hamas, they not only want Gaza and the West Bank, they want "ALL" jews out of what is now called Israel....

[Galmin]

I am not confused.



"an end to the Jewish occupation of historical Palestine"



Looking at any map of historical palestine will make you realize that you and I are saying the exact same thing.



But for one point. They do not aim for getting "all jews out". That is not in their goals. Hamas wants Israeli withdrawal from all of the West Bank and Gaza, the dismantling of all Israeli settlements and full right of return for the four million Palestinians who live in other states. After that, the Jews could remain, living "in an Islamic state with Islamic law".



Not to confuse you, let me make it clear here and now that I am personally not supporting the goals of Hamas.

Nor do I think they are dudley-do-rights.



I believe them to be terrorists.



I also believe it is important to understand what they really want, i.e. their goals.



I do, however, support the UN Resolutions that forbids Israel to expand further and calls for their withdrawal from occupied territory. UNRWA reports close to 13,000 Palestinians are left homeless as a result of Israeli destruction throughout the Palestinian territory occupied by the Israeli troops.

[MIKE BURN]

Pictures do speak a thousand words sometimes...



...the "do-good" attribute absolutely doesn't apply to Israeli actions... consider the hidden message of the pictures below, from palestinian "evil-doers" (partially strong nerves required to take the REALITY and the reason why Hamas exists):

[MIKE BURN]

[MIKE BURN]

I simply feel for victims of both sides and my pictures are HARDLY broadcasted anywhere in the U.S. or in Israel.



Like the execution of the young palestinian boy, who was shot hiding behind his father, they are likely named 'fake' anyway.





So many fakes.....

[memphis mike]

we saw that picture and everyone in the US knew the truth behind that picture-he was killed in cold blood by Israeli troops...your pictures are not new to me...I think the US should not give any support to Israel until they remove themselves from the West Bank and Gaza,,,but, again, i know the reality that peace will only exists if Hamas is out of business.....

[MIKE BURN]

We can agree again on something.



Israel has to act according U.N. resolutions and to withdraw from occupied territories.



Furthermore it would be the best, to install some sort of international peace force, incl. participants from muslim countries, instead of any U.S. invasion or initiative which would drive things worse IMHO

[MIKE BURN]

I might add, like Galmin, I do not support Hamas and related organisations, nor Sharon nor extremist Israeli organisations not the illegal occupation of Palestine, planned destruction of homes, deportation and killing of civilists in Palestine.





BTW... "killing of civilists" can look like this:

Edited by: MIKE BURN  at: 7/7/03 7:17 pm